maybe you´re getting a little some some.

re-online

It is certainly an issue, though seemingly a bit game specific and maybe only with HD sets or certain types of HD sets (I've seen FFXII emulated on a standard set just fine... but my LCD looks insanely bad). Still, if Sony expects this to be the HD generation, then thy need to address this. It's not exactly isolated cases... it IS crossing a number of triple-A titles.

If you aren't having the problem... just sit down, shut up, and be glad... don't harrass those of us who are. Holding Sony responsible to fix issues isn't a matter of "hating Sony"... it's a matter of trying to keep them honest so EVERYONE'S experience with the systems is as good as it can be.

dv8godd

I rock ghetto-ass Pelican PL-957 switch (which I scored for $50 off eBay and it included some wretched component cables and an optical cable) - I needed to open it up and fix some cold/broken solder to get it working. The PL-957 has 8 inputs w/ component/s-vid/composite/stereo and 3 of those also have optical. I use it to hook up my LaserDisc, PS2, Wii, Cube, PS1, and DC. This gets fed into my Yamaha receiver which A/Ds it all into HDMI for my TV (no de-interlacing or scaling since your TV will generally do a much better job than anything else except a dedicated processor like a DVDO iScan VP).

The Pelican is nice and easy to fix if it gets broken and cheap, so I highly recommend it.

whitesanjuro

But when the 360 plays games it runs crystal clear. Also HD television broadcasts look amazing as well. My Wii looked terribly until my component cables arrived, but my question for you guys is this: How do you go about setting up all of your HD machines?

My PS2, 360, Wii and DVD player take up 4 component slots (another reason I switched to letting the 360 play my DVDs now).

I bought this cheap ass "switch" from Gamestop that has 3 component slots so I can connect Wii, PS2, and the 360 up to my TVs ONE component slot, but most of the time it causes the outputs to have a slightly "fuzzy" filter over them. And I always get the best picture when I directly connect said systems to my TVs component connection, but its not only annoying but harmful to the connection to be constantly changing those delicate plugs.

Can anyone recommend a solution for me?

PS: SORRY FOR THE WALL OF TEXT.

k1dsmoke

DaJuDg3

"Still, the difference in color quality alone is pretty jarring."

I for one think this is a calibration issue. Each content device I have used behaves slightly differently than another. I do not have a PS3, but I helped do a calibration of the unit over HDMI and Component (replacing a PS2 on the same component input) and the contrast, brightness, and contrast settings were different (PS3 was much "cooler").

In the video itself he is using two different connection types: Component for PS2 and HDMI for PS3. Component is likely set to YCbCr and HDMI is set to RGB. This can cause different color decoding on the display. I would like to know what kind of calibration was done for each system before I make a judgment on the difference.

Or better yet, I would like to have a PS3 to mess around with on my personal setup.

LostToys

Dan Zuccarelli

Yes, the HDMI output causes an approximate 60 millisecond lag spike IN BACKWARDS COMPATIBILITY MODE. For PS1/PS2 games--like the topic being discussed here. Not PS3 games; they work fine.

If you had read the link on that post, you would know that this happens because the PS3 outputs PS1/PS2 games at 480p with the HDMI out, even if the game only natively supports 480i.

The lag glitch does not affect games with 480p/Progressive Scan support (so long as you enable it within the game).

You can very easily measure this lag with a copy of Guitar Hero II. Do the HDTV Lag Calibration test under "Video options". First, do a test with Progressive Scan enabled, and you will get between 0 and 15 milliseconds. Disable Progressive Scan, and you can see that number shoot up to between 50 and 70 milliseconds.

poon

A load of rubbish. You need you clean your TV, mate.

ElNini

COLOURS.

ElNini

Still, the difference in color quality alone is pretty jarring.

TheLostSkeleton

Sounds to me someone is just looking for an excuse to blame his poor multiplayer on.

Sony HDMI Cable - for Video
Generic Wallmart Optical Cable - for Sound
Samsung LNR238W 480i/480p/760p/1080i - HDTV
Logitech THX certified Z5500 5.1 - Surround Sound System.

raine204

khdownes

firmware will fix it soon, I guarantee it.

aykay

leshrac55

Are you serious? How in God's name did the PS2 so completely dominate Europe then? Or is this the case with all consoles as well? Sorry for my lack of PAL awareness.

VoidXero

WELL FFX didn't look ALL that bad, but the lighting was weird. It was like the still pictures though. I guess I would have to see up close to make a final choice. I REALLY hate making choices from a Youtube video, or screen shots.

I wouldn't mind upscaling, but I don't see it as a OMG G2G concern right now. I'm sure once Sony has emulated the PS2 instead of it running from the EE/GS chip in the PS3 that upscaling will be in. But I really don't know. I know that there was an article here about Sony working on upscaling DVDs for the PS3, so maybe that will come two. Also maybe there waiting to get the kinks out of some of the games.

I don't know about upscaled PSone games, I mean HOW upscaling can you get them? Sure maybe on a HDTV thing but lord all the quirks would be shown, I'd rather just have PS2 games be upscaled =D

Sailorcancer

Sailorcancer

RiceBandit

...and the people that were buying a PS3 that didn't have a PS2? What do they do? Oh let me guess, they have to buy a PS2 as well right?

Psychotext

Some HDTVs have much better filters and scalers then others.

Point being the PS3 should be taking care of that aspect not the TV.

Handles25

So don't complain you spoiled yankees :)

TeamLando

You have to take off your Sony goggles first before you try it on your TV.

fubarduck

Not mine. Sorry, I must be blessed that way. It's nice that you've tested 100% of TVs though, not including mine of course.

That very same forum you mentioned has pictures of MGS2 looking just fine on PS3, which also puts a nasty dent in your claim.

This doesn't affect everyone, so either it's a problem with faulty PS3s or it's a problem with TVs.

arcthemonkey

It's not a 480i on HD display issue, because the issue happens on non-HD TVs using regular cables. On top of that, the PS2 is also outputting 480i, so the game would look exactly the same on both sides of the video if this was the problem.

Additionally, as we now know, the HDMI outputs at 480p, not 480i. So, if the PS3 were deinterlacing correctly, the PS3 side of the video should have looked much better than the PS2 side which was outputting 480i.

fubarduck

No, this is why you sell your PS3 on e-bay.

ZeroMP

You are completely wrong. This isn't a TV-related issue. It happens on all TVs, as in 100% of them, with any cables. The issue doesn't affect all games, but it affects a lot of them. Instead of casting it off as TV-related, why not test it for yourself? The video used the highest quality cables with the same game on the same TV, so I'm not sure what was hard to understand.

Additionally, the HDMI output of the PS3 creates an input lag of about 60 milliseconds (coming from the PS3 itself), making time-sensitive games unplayable. BC is completely broken on PS3. There's already a 70+ page thread on Playstation.com outlining the issue, with proof (screenshots) from several different users.

@Socatume:

Actually, the PS3 DOES deinterlace it's output for PS2 games via Component and HDMI. This was one of the running theories as to why PS1/PS2 games were jaggier on the PS3, but apparently the problem can still be re-created with plain ole' S-Video or Composite. For a technical explanation, see:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=753069

I really hope the misinformation gets cleared up soon and that Sony will acknowledge the issue.

fubarduck

Evirus

Risky+Safety

Ixero

"notice the scary trailer font and music? when did fox get into sensationalistic overblowen BS bloging? news flash folks, emulation always has problems attached weather it be grahpical audiotory or sheer FPS based."

Except they're not using emulation yet. There's actually a PS2 and PS1 inside the PS3. So... try again...

miniboss1232

deejaybd

Evirus

robo2112

Evirus

"ZOMG!!one Look how GOOD the PS3 looks!!!eleventy!11!1"

"Wayyy better than PS2!@at1!seventyfour!"

"I'm glad I spent all that extra money for these super graphics(you get the point)"

ZeroMP

@usedtabe: Yes a firmware update should be able to fix this, and I wouldnt consider this a comfort but a problem that sony is probably already working on for a while, Because by next year all PS3's should be playing Ps1 and Ps2 games under emulation and this problem should dissapear, and I'll take an educated guess that when sony releases the firmware to play the downloadable Ps1 titles on the Ps3 that can only be played on the psp at the moment, is when this issue will also be fixed.

@General: Even when playing my ps2 thru component cables most games on my hi-def tv didnt look too great to begin with, but on a standard tube tv look nice. So even when sony does update the Ps3 with a firmware the games will probably, probably still look bad without all the jaggies though. We dont have the convience the xbox had because alot of those games were already in hi def (480p and 720p) so its easier to manipulate them when they're emulated to the 360 but most ps2 games were in 480i unless they had the progressive mode option enabling them to 480p.

Regula Oblique

firelogic

gunbu

aegies

arcthemonkey

From what I've gathered this affects only about 5-6 games, and has already been acknowledged by Sony. (Aren't these problems mentioned on the backwards compatability site?)

It will likely be fixed, although preemptively selling your PS2 in preparation was probably a mistake.

Again, this doesn't happen to everyone so it's kind of up in the air as to what is actually causing it.

arcthemonkey

bbysknnr6

Drews_Mom

I actually sold my ps2 in preperation of the ps3 and have regretted it tremendously. The PS3 makes PS2 games look WORSE.

Commariodore64

DigitalHero

Sockatume

I recently got a HDMI cable and the visual quality on FFXII improved. My TV is only 27'' but it is HDTV, maybe smaller TV's are not affected that much as suggested...

He dicho.

Weymaster

I should really get around to playing that game. Or any FF, for that matter.

Gloominati

Sockatume

Earthslide

I don't know much about how firmware effects this sort of thing but i hope some sort of update will correct the problem

Excalibur

This can be confirmed by anyone with a PS3 and a decent monitor. Ask the monitor what the video signal is while running a PS2 title. If your monitor says 720 or 1080, then the PS3 is doing the worlds worst upscale (smells like nearest neighbor pixel doubling to me.)

Unless it's going to a sweet job, or perhaps render the scenes at the higher resolutions, there is no good reason for the PS2 emulation to output at anything "better" than 480p, thus preserving the PS2 image quality.

While there are plenty of HDTV's with piss-poor SD upscaling, his clearly knows how to do so properly, as the PS2 as source looks fine. The other thing I notice is the massive color shift there, in all likelyhood he didn't take time to white balance his camera, but is that cool-shift to the color something the PS3 does all the time?

D-Train

Scazza

A weird note though, that I haven't read elsewhere on the net: in games like Substance that have AC-3 for certain cutscenes, the audio simply cuts out if you are using HDMI when the AC-3 plays back. Since you can't use the HDMI and optical output at the same time, I ended up testing out using the optical output for audio and the HDMI for video to see if that would work and after much hair pulling and cable rerouting to make that physical connection happen, the AC-3 work properly over the optical.

Annoying as hell IMHO, but since so few games supported that on the PS2 and I'd rather not buy the memory card adapter, its kind of a non-issue to me.

I would be interested if games like Rez support the USB vibrator, though. I have a Japanese copy of Rez, but the PS3 region-coding doesn't let me play it.

whitesanjuro

Devil

Psychotext

Can a firmware update fix this? (Going off of the blind knowledge of another commentor, so forgive my ignorance). I read a comment saying that a firmware update could not fix hardware that has upscaling issues (such as the 1080i/720p fiasco). Is this true, or can this actually be remedied with a firmware update?

usedtabe

I did call Sony about this 3 weeks ago - they said to use the composite cable included with the PS3.. ugh.

Ecks

But when I first loaded in SotC it looked horrible until I switched on progressive mode, which helped out quite a bit, so looks like we'll be waiting for that firmware update from sony to fix this.

Regula Oblique

I dont have a PS3 yet myself and probably wont till the sort the 1080i thing out as I dont want to play in standard def.

Konchu

usedtabe

My bet is that it's his TV. If it is the PS3, it's the pixel doubling.

ratticon

I can't comment on using the PS3's backwards compatibility because we're not allowed them in Europe yet.

But for ages now I've been hating the PS2's blurry, messy video output. Blow it up on any large screen and it looks pretty terrible. Speaking anecdotally I'm certain the PS2 isn't rendering at 720x480, I'm sure it's closer to 500x300 or thereabouts, and they add lots of blur to hide this because it doesn't do AA in hardware. I actually find the Dreamcast's 640x480 VGA output much nicer to look at compared to the PS2's output, which is why I think the PS2 is rendering at a lower res.

One thing I have noticed is you seem to get a much sharper picture from RGB output vs Y/Pb/Pr, I'm not sure what they're doing to the signal but anything via component does look worse than RGB SCART to me. Of course the other problem on HDTVs is that it's de-interlacing the picture so you get a reduction of image quality from that too.

That's why I'm quite disappointed that the BC on the PS3 isn't doing any upscaling (I was disappointed the PS2 didn't do any decent smoothing for the PS1 too!). The 360's BC is really lame in terms of compatibility but at least what it does run it tries to upscale. Ninja Gaiden actually looks almost next gen when it's upscaled, it really looks awesome. I'd love to see Shadow of the Colossus or MGS3 get that sort of treatment. I suppose the best we can hope for is paid downloads of games like Tekken 5 HD...

photoboy

My theory is most HDTVs upscale 480i/p slowly, but with good quality. The PS3 in this case does the "upscaling" and just stretches it with horrible results, the TV just sees a 1080/720 signal and thinks it needs no upscaling...

Scazza

Toneman

oddbalz

ClosedAccountDueToErrorsAshCouldn'tFix

Fuzz

RAMX

TitillatedOcelot

Milk just shoot out of my girlfriends noise as she read that .. LOLZ!

xpnet

aahpandasrun

Sabash

Chgu

Toneman

TitillatedOcelot