Mechachu

Is there any evidence this actually happened anyway? Only Lik-Sang says it, in their super-snarky letter.

I'm with you retropants. I can argue about the details all day, but I'm totally against Sony restricting cross-imports. I'm not sure why they even want to do this. Sales is sales.

Burn Rubber

Flazh

"PS3 owners. LEPERS."

Potay-to, Po-tatto, says I.

*runs off and cowers behind 360 power brick*

Chuz

Jack Loftus

fact is... by January 1st 2007 there will still be more lepers on earth than PS3 owners. LEPERS.

x23

Konchu

I remember when Immerson sued Sony for the rumble, it was a whole different story. "Serves Sony right for infringing on Immersons patent, thoes bastards".

In buisness, you cant have things like this go. You have to put a limit on what is done and on the rules you make.

If you want people to follow your rules, then you have to enforce them. If you dont, then people will try to bend and break untill it gets out of control.

Lik-Sang, regardless of how much you liked them, or how much you dis-like Sony, was in the wrong. Also, I;m sure that Sony sent noticews to Lik-Sang, and that they were not just sued out of the blue. Plus, Lik-Sang has been sued before, by Sony, and M-Soft, and Nintendo.

The fact that Sony was able to sue Lik-Sang says that they had a LEGAL RIGHT to. So why are we getting mad at Sony for exercising a RIGHT? Oh, I know, because this is Kotaku and thats what we do here..... get mad at Sony.

Kaniskii

http://boardsus.playstation.com/playstation/board/message?...

Now that my reputation for inaccuracy and unreliability has been established, I'll weigh in on this situation: I understand that while it is Sony's prerogative and responsibility to protect their copyright, and that they do have benefits in preventing parallel importing, it still hurts the consumer. If it leads to importing agencies closing their doors as a result of their actions, it seems more like a sign of bad sportsmanship and insecurity on Sony's part. I live in Australia, one of the "forgotten" territories; I'm aware of a lot of people who've ordered from Lik-Sang, and while there may yet be alternatives, it's still disappointing.

Retropants regrets nothing

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Burn Rubber

The thick plottens...

Retropants regrets nothing

If Lik-Sang had stopped selling import PSPs when informed by Sony they were going to be sued, Lik-Sang's liability would be very limited, and they would still be in business today.

When Lik-Sang didn't stop selling PSPs when informed it was against the law, they didn't stop. They kept selling. And then when the court date came, they didn't even show.

Sounds like Lik-Sang knew all along they were breaking the law (stupid law though it may be). And they kept selling these units against the law It'll be tough for Lik-Sang to make any kind of case against Sony. I mean, even if Lik-Sang has to go out of business because of the money they owe Sony, it's all legal.

Lik-Sang could have stopped selling the PSP when Sony informed them they were going to sue, and they wouldn't have to close business today. They didn't do this, and this is a big reason why they ended up in this situation.

In short, Lik-Sang kept selling when they apparently were so convinced that what they were doing was indefensible that they didn't even bother to show up to defend themselves.

I like Lik-Sang, but they have to take some responsibility for their actions.

Burn Rubber

Konchu

Lik-Sang is now out of business.
Sony can now screw the Euro consumer as hard as they want. Yeah Lik-Sang is the bad guy.

Boycott Sony.

Robotron

As far as the "privacy breach," don't be so quick to assume that, in this particular instance, that it is, in fact, a breach. Because of things like Sarbanes-Oxley, things like this can often be legally and ethically released. If you think they're just going to give out random consumer info, you're an overzealous turd, and at least one other vowel variation on the term. Sorry.

mercatfat

I have a Japanese PS2 and all versions of Taiko no Tatsujin for it (and the Japanse PSP version)as well as other games. Obviously these games feature Japanese tracks that are hard to justify licensing here. (I also have a US PS2 and the US version of the game.)

I have been following the import scene for well over 10 years. I understand that this may be in their rights and technically legal but that still does not make me appritiate Sony's stance. Though this should not suprise as this is the same company that patened technolgy to bind a game to a console which would eliminate resell, game rentals or even more scary taking a game to a friends house.(can you say control complex)

Why does the most successful game company of this decade need to worry about this. They were very successful with the PS2 with these same importers doing their thing.

Konchu

Ammo (read: facts): The E.U. Commission has made it quite clear that it welcomes parallel trade in the games industry:

"Restrictions of parallel trade represent an infringement of Article 81 of the EU treaty. Experience has proven that parallel trade leads to efficiency gains and lower prices in the EU and is, thus, beneficial for consumers."

Further, Mario Monti, the former Commissioner in charge of competition, noted as part of a similar ruling against Nintendo:

"The European Commission is here to protect the public from business practices designed to keep prices artificially high. European families spend millions every year on video games and we want to make sure that they are not being swindled." (thanks falafelkid, cologne, germany)

The ruling in the U.K. could very well be in violation of E.U. law and precedent. I can hear Sony stock tumbling again...

Jack Loftus

Burn Rubber

What? So every company that import and sell any type of merchandise is illegal? Doubt it. It's like the foundation of modern commerce. Btw, why do you think they need region coding if it wasn't legal to move and sell products all over the world?

Taz

I wonder if the judge knew of this during the ruling. Lik-Sang is now OBLIGED to pay up. It almost looks like extortion.

lker

That is where you are wrong my friend. Sony may play dirty...in everything they do...but they are not proper stupid. If Lik-Sang were on the ropes, you would think they would have enough common sense to know killing...no, executing...a company like that would only generate bad press for them.

Edge of Blade

Also, how can PS3 sell millions when it only has half a million?

lker

Mechachu

The e-cool bandwagon hatorade?

When the PS3 still sells it's millions, obviously it isnt "everyone around you".

EnigmaNemesis

Mechachu

lker

lker

Good to know.

lker

Lol I wont stop commenting, because what I said, was, when everyone else around you stops, theres obviously a reason. So when everyone quits commenting, I will too.

Mechachu

You too, Precise2282. How much do they pay you to post to Kotaku from your Sony cubicle farm?

oe-phen

I don't really sympathize with either. Though I was planning on importing a certain game being released 2007 from LS, but owell I guess I'll just look somewhere else, no biggie.

nini

http://www.engadget.com/2006/03/23/playstation-3-to-ship-r...
http://ps3.ign.com/articles/697/697656p1.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_3 (check under "Games")
http://www.cdfreaks.com/news/12652
http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/gdc/playstation-3-regionfree-...

lker

Then you should stop commenting. I bet you would feel obliged to.

lker

DoomedSeraph

Mechachu

I'm sorry, but why should they have to? Unless it was the governments of these countries who were stating laws were being broken, but if it was just sony saying 'STOP SELLING PS3s TO COUNTRIES THAT WE HAVE DECIDED SHOULD WAIT 6 MONTHS' then there's no reason why they should feel obliged to stop anything.

DoomedSeraph

Mechachu

Give us a break Top tier Executives never get thier hands dirty in day to day business let alone doing investigations for the company.

Sony really lied their way through this one. Claiming they were selling dangerous hardware and all that

suba

lker

Altima NEO

BALD FACED LIE, typical of Sony.

that statement doesn't stand up to the "laugh test", let alone a critically discerning judge or jury.

dcartist

Sony (along with other game companies) gave shoddy support to Europe while Europe just took it. Do you know how frustrating it is to see others on the internet enjoy a game you really want only to find out it won't be released for your region for months and even years? How about never?

Now, Sony just gone ahead and killed any chances for these enthusiasts to ever enjoy these US/Japan-only Playstation games. And they'll still keep fucking them with late releases with slimer selections compared to the US/Japan markets. How would you feel?

lker

Riscaa

They will be forgotten in 6 months and so they should be. What a bunch of terds. Dont be surprised if they sell your information to the highest bidder if you bought from them.

Riscaa

2) Its not illegal even if it was, illegal asumes there is a law about it, there is none anywhere. Its a civil matter not a legal one."

1) Not illegal to import, but illegal to sell. And Lik Sang was selling.

2) It is illegal in those countries named in Europe. Thus the case.

EnigmaNemesis

Mechachu

1) its NOT a trademark violation to import.

2) Its not illegal even if it was, illegal asumes there is a law about it, there is none anywhere. Its a civil matter not a legal one.

Falconfire

Why cant people absorb that?

EnigmaNemesis

Law Student talking.

Walken

And that makes it right? That's the worse excuse in the world for being an asshole. "Oh, it's business, so I'm allowed to be a total and massive dick to everybody who stands in my way as long as it's in pursuit of the almighty dollar."

TheLostSkeleton

You're right! Just to be on the safe side, they should stop selling all goods. I'm sure they'd stay in business then!

Of course, maybe everyone should just stop selling all SONY stuff for fear of reprisal, oh, I mean for the customer's protection.

doubtful

Mechachu

To be blunt, Sony simply bullied Lik-Sang of all of their money so they couldn't defend themselves. Most of the claims are pretty much just rubbish and couldn't really stand on its own feet and its really sad to see them lose, especially when they were the ONLY store to go against Sony's grey importing ban when those letters went out.

Sony wanted a sure win and had something Lik-Sang didn't have enough of. Money.

Just goes to show what money is good for... Taking out small fries who won't listen to what you say because they wasn't doing anything wrong.

Today marks the beginning of the end of the importing scene.

Thank you Lik-Sang for the wonderful imports you brought to my door.

ReZeN

I am not on the same side of the fence. This did nothing but hurt them (Sony) from not just a PR standpoint. They are trying to let everyone know that you need to walk Sony's line. Importing was "only helping" them, who cares if it sold there to go here or vice versa. It's a "System Sold" be happy people want to import it and STFU. I have been done with Sony for sometime now (because of their Ego) but now hopefully others will collect their thoughts and see what's really going on...not just beleive "if Sony said it...it must be true."

caleb

I bet it was those Japanese head-honchos being stingy and saying no to those fellas. I mean, do you REALLY think the same people listed will get a free PS3 if they ask for one?

lker

Tepoz

Think about it these company execs probably got a free psp as a perk why would they buy something like this from Lik Sang, hell if they wanted it so bad they could have just flew to Japan and bought one

mikemil828

But that really was an agressive tactic by Sony. *shudders*

Schnazer

astroglide

The way I see it Sony is doing this for the press.

In all honesty the ONLY and I mean ONLY thing that really hurts sales is the sale of used systems and games. Also rentals. When is Sony gonna sue gamestop for double profit or some shit?

Thancrus

*total Play-Asia whore*

DaveKap

SeannyFunco

Sony, WTF is wrong with you!? Lik-Sang has always been of great service for the international (European) gaming community, something I can't say about Sony......

Respect Lik-Sang, I hope we'll see you again some day in the future....

www.DaNaca.nl

If $ony didnt see the good Lik-Sang were doing for them, then leave off instead of being cocky and continuing to piss them off.

All this wont stop folks buying the P$3, its mainly us "geeks" that notice stuff like this.

May the tennis match continue. lol..."sour grapes" ^_^

joncoffee

Is that what theyre calling pre-imports now? Oh, but only for Sony, not for the rest of the world...

If they wanted PSPs for "investigative purposes", then they should have contacted Sony in Japan and said "Hey, ship us some free PSPs!!"

Raynre Valence

A supremely popular multinational company with well over a hundred thousand customers can't even afford to show up to just ONE court case IF THEY ARE NOT A SUPREMELY POPULAR MULTINATIONAL COMPANY. Maybe since you've been sucking off Sony so much that you can't tell the difference, but Lik-Sang is not THAT SUPREMELY POPULAR COMPANY WHICH IS ALSO RICH.

Lik-Sang dealt with obscure/imported items that hardly would create profit. It was popular, but only among the internet circles and hardcore gamers. Also, a hundred thousand customers (you said they have hundred thousand, so I'll take your word for it) barely mean anything. Hell, even a small African nation have a couple million people. Now, Sony on the other hand is exactly that supremely popular multinational company with well over a billion customers/dollars. Even Sony's tiny "oomph" could cause massive damage in all of Lik-Sangs weak points.

Which is too bad since all the other even more obscure websites that deal in full-blown piracy will get Lik-Sang customers from all over the world.

lker

I, however, think it's foolish as the world becomes one big happy economy that Japan has cooler cell phones and more RPGs with an abundance of cut-scenes than the US and Europe has to stew for five or six or more months while a handful of the privileged in the US and Japan get to make next-gen waffles.

But if you want an economy determined by borders, by all means, go for it. I guess that's what SONY means by CELL. Enjoy living in one.

doubtful

MissingNo

KPrecise

MissingNo

MissingNo

Something is fishy here.

Burn Rubber

KPrecise

ryro

Sony could be twisting and putting spin on their words to make Lik-Sang look like they're in the wrong, when Lik-sang could simply have not shown up because they knew that, by the time it was all over, regardless of whether they were right or wrong, Sony would have won. Any way you look at it, no matter how big Lik-Sang was, Sony is bigger.

TheLostSkeleton

Mitch

The point is that they didn't have to show up to just ONE court case. They had to show up at ALL of the cases and win EVERY ONE OF THEM. That adds up to a whole lot of money that they couldn't afford. Should they have gone to this court case and won, they would still have 13+ cases to go to and they couldn't afford it, so they didn't go to any and waste their money.

It was all or nothing. They couldn't afford all so they went with nothing.

Sabash

http://www.lik-sang.com/news.php?artc=3901

They named names

mikemil828

We've had letters like this sent to our company, fellow competitors, and customers. If you stop selling the item in question, you won't end up getting sued.

OGHowie

"...but also Sony Europe's very own top directors repeatedly got their Sony PSP hard or software imports in nicely packed Lik-Sang parcels with free Lik-Sang Mugs or Lik-Sang Badge Holders, starting just two days after Japan's official release, as early as 14th of December 2004 (more than nine months earlier than the legal action). The list of PSP related Sony Europe orders reads like the who's who of the videogames industry, and includes Ray Maguire (Managing Director, Sony Computer Entertainment Europe Ltd), Alan Duncan (UK Marketing Director, Sony Computer Entertainment Europe Ltd), Chris Sorrell (Creative Director, Sony Computer Entertainment Europe Ltd), Rob Parkin (Development Director, Sony Computer Entertainment Europe Limited), just to name a few."

They did release the names, which some can argue isn't too much of a privacy matter but even at that it seems to me like they are pushing it as far as online retailing and privacy goes.

Quote here.

SleazyC

Jack Loftus

Yep the only way to survive a lawsuit it to open yourself up to even more lawsuits

mikemil828

As for Lik-Sang not showing up, what an incredibly disingenuous statement from Sony. Of course they didn't show up. You sued them in so many locales that the cost of just showing up was going to bankrupt them, which was the entire point of the exercise. Sony decided to take Lik-Sang out, and they did an excellent job of it, because they're vicious bastards.

mfelps

Lider

Contratulations Sony on dealing with Lik Sang like it was 1989! Hopefully, the guys at LS will go back to their shady roots and continue their business underground, like it was 1989... You've effectively push civilization back to Guerrilla warfare. Have fun! :)

clone.of.snake

oe-phen

I wouldn't be suprised if Sony sues them again for something like that.

As to the closing, it is sad to see Lik-Sang go as they were an awesome importation shop. What I truly hope is that this does not set some type of precedent for importing any type of video game related merchandise.

Whats up with Europe even allowing this type of lawsuit anyways?

SleazyC

I hope Sony doesn't get a penny from Lik-Sang.

photoboy

njsykora

I have never done business with Lik-Sang but I have a few friends who have dealt with them and had very pleasant things to say.

I've been boycotting Sony since the release of the first Playstation. Same company, different day, same BS. Sony, your days are numbered and I can see the writing on the wall that you'll be bankrupt in less than four years.

Brad

Now, would someone please translate this into dumb-batshit Sony Defense Force language so they can understand. And think about it, id Sony were a good company, why would they need a defense force?

usedtabe

Actually, Sony execs shouldn't have been able to get PSPs in Europe during the delay. Steve Ballmer commented that he couldn't get an Xbox 360 at launch for his children, because he had to buy on the market like any other consumer (and couldn't get one due to lack of supply). There are certain consequences to making benefits available to only top executives, mostly from a tax angle. In the U.S., I hear that this is in large part due to a little thing called "Sarbanes-Oxley". I am fairly certain that is some kind of men's dress shoe. A loafer, I think.

Oncnawan

MasaMuneCyrus

What a big collective coward.

doubtful

BionicCommando

So a supremely popular multinational company with well over a hundred thousand costumers can't even afford to show up to just ONE court case, despite the fact they have been able to fight many cases before. I'm not sure about you but to me it seems that Lik Sang was already a doomed company with or without Sony against them.

mikemil828

FalcomAdol

Lyrai

I predict that they will be back in six months.

FalcomAdol

1) strict EU's ruling. Governments don't want people to evade taxes and pay cheaper PS3.
2) protecting local businesses in Europe (whichever is selling PS3)

Of course, as gamers, you're fucked. If you live in Europe, you might wanna start signing petition against your local government to stop charging so much on taxes (so you don't have to buy cheaper imports)

HobbaHobba

FogOWar

Oh, and the "pruchasing for investigatory purposes" was the lamest and most hypocrate answer ever made by Sony, lol. They probably bought to investigate why the PSP has loads of crappy games and a very slow UMD loadtime huh? :P

Lider

Lyrai

You know what, I'm actually going to shield my nuts here and say that I do believe that. I mean, if you were a high-up at Sony, why in the HELL would you be buying a PSP AT ALL? Don't you think those guys had one sitting on their desks long before they were released anywhere? I'm sure Sony takes care of their golden boys better than making them import their own hardware from some HK supplier.

Robotube

It seems more plausible that the SCEA execs didn't want to disappoint their respective families in light of the 9 month European launch delay they announced (or possibly where planning to announce!).

TrustyBadger

END OF STORY

BGSS

"We would therefore strongly deny that our actions have had anything to do with this website closing."

Why does anything Sony says hold water after making that statement? It is an illogical leap to believe that. But then again Sony supporters are used to making illogical leaps of faith.

If Sony had not sued Lik-Sang, this would not have happened. I guess I was wrong about Sony executives...EVERYONE at Sony is batshit crazy.

Edge of Blade

MikeKelley

For a small company of course there will be some court cases that you wont have the money to attend .especially since they are based in hong kong and had so many different pending court cases.

Sony did that purposely knowing full well it would drive the company out of business

majortom1981

I hope you are talking about Nintendo and not MS.

Lachoy

Kaboom!

mandarin

That's their fault by not even bothering to showing up to the trial"

Basically. Not showing up shows guilt in the eyes of most courts. They could have won the case for all anyone knew.

Anyways, Nintendo, MSFT, Sony, European government, and even Lik Sang are all at fault with the problems over the years.

EnigmaNemesis

mikemil828

Now, they should probably go ahead and pay the damages that were awarded for that one case, but then again shouldn't sony be paying up in all of their lost cases (ie: Immersion)?

As for the privacy issue... probably not the smartest thing to do, but then again, the sony Execs are semi-public figures. Lik-sang did not divulge any personal information about the executives, only the fact that the execs were in fact customers of lik-sang.

Either way, I'll care about the loss of privacy of a few sony executives the day that they care about the loss of privacy that they caused with the whole root-kit fiasco.

Neither company is completely in the right here, but I still feel that in the big picture, lik-sang is being bullied out of existence and for that I am extremely displeased with sony.

Turken

KineticOnline

And I think Sony could burn babies to fuel blu ray diodes and EnigmaNemesis would defend them to the bitter end.

robirt

That's their fault by not even bothering to showing up to the trial

mikemil828

hushgush

jedi55555

Grue

akwinters

http://lik-sang.com/master.php?navbar=Privacy&inc=privacy....

They don't realy say anything about not sharing that information (although they don't say they make it available either). Because they don't expressly SAY that they won't share customer information, I think they are on safe ground. Not totally moral, but safe legaly perhaps. Of course, IANAL.

I'm sure they did it becuase of sour grapes, but who amoung us wouldn't be heartbroken right now if a company you built up over the years with a solid reputation, supllying a niche market with what they wanted gets taken to court and shut down by the very company that you are supporting by reselling their product? I'd be a little sour, too.

PS.Kotaku seams to be very broken today.

Fuzz

They say they have been awarded substatial costs that have not been paid. Meaning Lik Sang owes them. And if Lik Sang can't afford these "substantial costs" then they would have to close up shop.

I agree with your logic. So technically Sony did bleed them. They did catch Lik-Sang with revealing customer information, which I assume they can sue them for that too.

Trowble (XBL/PSN)

cactaur

Sony's legal team is preparing a counter-response referring to the smallness of Lik-Sang's penis, and their lack of prowess in using it on their own (Lik-Sang's) mother.

Promethean

*www.paulvsdave.com

Existonfile

Graedus

And what point would that be? That you can force a smaller company you dislike out of business by spamming the EU legal system with less-than-honest lawsuits and hoping something sticks?

baberg

??? kinda like the time i downloaded a XXX movie thinking it was a prequel to the van diesel movies.

The investigation paid off, didnt it sony? :)

no0ne

arcthemonkey

For all the anti-Sony ranting and raving, this is still essentially Sony's free PS3 marketing division. If a Sony exec so much as farts, Kotaku is there to tell you how this affects the European release date.

Poppa Earl

arcthemonkey

VakeroRokero

jayntampa

Toneman

-cough- rootkit -cough-

SXGlory

ei

darkcambria

Barbara

Anarchist_Gamer

They sure due.

Hey Kotaku, where is the hatorade against Lik Sang for releasing private information? You were all over Sony. What Lik Sang did was something knowingly unethical and wrong on many levels with online etailers code of conduct.

EnigmaNemesis

Didn't they just answer their own querstion there? They say they have been awarded substatial costs that have not been paid. Meaning Lik Sang owes them. And if Lik Sang can't afford these "substantial costs" then they would have to close up shop. Which appears to have happened. Did I miss somthing in my train of logic, or is Sony realy just that stupid?

Fuzz

LeFishy

mikemil828

Gloominati

They are just as guilty. Commence American vs. European bashing!

/sarcasm on the whole country bashing thing.

EnigmaNemesis