Don't forget that 3rd parties are selling accessories far cheaper than the original ones.

The real difference is that with the 360 you can chose whether or not you want a next gen discformat (HD-DVD). With the PS3, you have no choice. So if you're only interested in gaming, the Xbox360 clearly has the best value.

I like the article and the rare lack of anti Sony sentiment here but I think it boils down to the fact that, unfortunately, Sony and MS HAVE to charge that much. Its well known that Sony are going to be making a loss on each PS3, I would think that MS probably arent seeing any real profit yet either. Expensive as console gaming is looking to become in the coming months or indeed has ALREADY become - Its not going to be getting cheaper for a good few years.

I feel like screaming out loud as this. A lot of alternative choices would be nice. For example, I personally do not need a wireless adapter or controller as I am quite close to my TV in my room.

That's true Reenee, but that's why I included the price breakdown. Also I'm trying to stress the experience that both Microsoft and Sony are pitching to the world, and that means two wireless controllers and high-def everything.

I'd say that the PS3 is the slightly better value, but it lacks the ability to customize your experience.

If the PS3 offered a third, non-blu-ray option the PS3 would be way cheaper, I suspect. But of course, that's one of the main issues, I think Sony is trying to use this console to push a new format for movies. Which, in my judgement, is a mistake.

You may want to include the HDMI cable for the PS3. It can be a pretty big chunk of change in itself.

But isn´t the Bluray part of the videogame proposal, evolution of gaming thing???. Well, that´s what I thought, you know the "endless possibilities" speech. The fact that the games are in BluRay was supposed to be an asset, more content and HD video & sound.

So can we really separare BR from the gaming experience???...

I thought the wireless adapter was NOT built into the 599 version? Am I wrong? Also you are assuming that playing games on the PS Network is free, and all I recall from the annoucnment was that "basic services" would be offered for no cost to you. Sounds a lot like the same as the silver xbox live... anyone else with me here? I have to say by your "likely more" comment you sure seem to be anti 360... because it will likely be more than free on the ps network also but you failed to mention that. I wish someone would post an unbiased article.

This also assumes no 360 price drop. Which since it's already happened in the UK and Japan I think is pretty much guanarnteed before the holidays.

Don't forget the $100+ HDMI cable it takes to play BR on your HD TV.

What about expensive Sony cables for the 'real' hi-def experience?

Besides which, I thought this was about playing video games. How do you even factor in DVD players as a relevant point? That used to be just an added perk of getting a game console, not a deciding factor.

Regardless, and this may sound a bit corny, but when it comes to value you can't beat the Nintendo Wii. Free online, no hi-def pissing match, more affordable games, and about a couple hundred shy of the competition's hardware. Now that's a system worth talking about!

Crecente, you forgot a few things:

You cannot compare two things when one has not been released. For all we know, the online play could suck, the wireless built into the ps3 could be shit. Wireless on X360 isn't needed too. How about price of games? How about PS3 needing adaptor for memory cards?

Bottom line is, comparing systems cannot be done straight one to one comparison. It is all about the individual experince. What do people want. Sure that comparison will apply to some people (very rich, selfish people), but that is not everyone.

Plus you are forgetting one factor. GAMES. If you want to compare stuff, do that.

HDMI cables cost $20 to $300, depending on the brand and such.

I'm comparing cost, not quality.
I wrote a cost break down of the Xbox 360 three months before the 360 hit as well.

well, if you want to compare the experience, xbox live is way more organized than sony's online stragety from what I've heard. To me, it sounds like sony's online stragety iz to allow third parties to provide content however they see fit rather than in a nice neat marketplace format.

As for blu ray discs, they're slower than regular dvd's (which will lead to slow and abundant loading of all that high def goodness) and while they COULD hold super duper hi def 1080p graphics, no one is willing to make 1080p games at this time due to the added time and money needed to do so. If your favorite movie is out on blu ray, yea, it's a great deal.... other than that at this time there's little reason to bother.

I'm not trashing the ps3 per se, more waithing for proof that it's worth my hard earned money.... the first year of releases looks kinda lackluster w/ the exception of resistance, and maybe devil may cry four, and that makes me nervous about a six hundred dollar investment.

A console w/ a high def optical drive w/ no good movies, and a slim lineup of games that look, sound, or play no better than those on the competitions platform does not sound like a better "experience" to me.

I dont think there SHOULD be customisable experiences in relation to games consoles - I want features to be standard so that developers can rely on them. Built In HDD's are possibly the best example but I also think that blu-ray could be just as much for gaming as people think it will be for movies. With a next gen drive built in we can expect lots of lovely hi def textures and oodles of quality surround sound. The HD DVD drive for the 360 on the other hand... I can only see that being used for movies; no actual benefit to the games themselves. Its pretty superfluous in my opinion.

Having said all that if all three next gen consoles were available right NOW the only one I would be interested in is the 360 and even then there is only one game out I would want to buy. Sadly the next gen future holds lots of waiting and watching for me, probably until at least mid 2007

This is a fairly idiotic post. Brian, this is something I'd expect to see from some fanboys on gamespot forums.

The "full experience" !? First what exactly is the full experience? The accessories you want that you think everyone else does or just every possible accessory you can buy?

To say you a wireless adapter for the 360 to get the full experience is a pretty big stretch.

And to say sony and ms are charging too much while you list the most expensive accessories possible is ridiculous. They aren't charging too much at all. They're giving consumers a great deal by selling their products below cost and at the same time offering cheaper options. If you think they are "charging too much" you don't buy the wireless controller, you don't buy the recharge kit, and you don't buy hd-dvd upgrade.

Thanks for this article. I can't really justify the "full experience" for either console at the moment (I'm still hestitant about buying a PSP), but for some reason I still like poring over breakdowns like this. Maybe I'm just a masochist.

Also, people need to stop stressing about the HDMI cable issue. There are a bunch on Froogle right now for like $10-30. And with HDMI being digital, I don't think that you have to worry about buying an "inferior" cable. It either works or it doesn't.

yea, I paid six bucks for an hdmi cable that hasn't failed me

Umm I play my 360 next to my HDTV that is right beside my router. I do not need wireless. Why dont you add the cost of the router as well.

I'm not affiliated in any way with the place, I'm just a happy customer. I've gotten numerous cables, HDMI, DVI, component, toslink, ethernet, etc from monoprice.com. The prices are incredibly competitive and the cable quality is great.

I've seen toslink (fiber) cables with gold connectors. What's the point? It's still fiber.

It's amazing the methods companies have found to separate fools from their money.

Oh, and an XBL gold subscription is $50 from microsoft directly. You can get them online for $40 and less, if you check froogle.

hell yea, monoprice is the shit

I agree with your assessment, but I don't really have much interest in HD-DVD or Blu-Ray at the moment. Also, I don't need a wireless adapter, I have a router right next to my consoles.

The 360 allows people to choose whether or not they want those extras, whereas Sony forces buyers to pay extra for them, even if they don't want them.

I find the often used "If you're only interested in gaming, the Xbox360 is the best choice". Why is that? Because it doesn't use a new optical-disc format?

Why isn't Blu-Ray something that is of interest to gaming? Why is Blu-Ray seen as something that is only for movie-playback? Next-gen formats are important to gaming. GTA3 as we know it would have been impossible on CD, it needed DVD.

I'm positive that next-gen formats might bring change to gaming. Offcourse we won't know how but it only takes an imaginitive and crafty developer to come up with a concept.

Tháts actually where the Xbox360 is stuck in its place. The software is going to hit its eventual roof. Its going to stick to current-gen gameplay concepts which is why it looks so appealing now. The only way to break through the roof is by sacrifing alot of user-conveniences, which might not be very acceptable in a year or two.

Unless ofcourse, Microsoft's gaming devision decides that they eventually will use HD-DVD as an 360 format... which might just be the biggest inconvenience of all.

Anyhow, that's my opinion on that matter. Okay okay... you may commence flaming me now. You know you want to!

HD-DVD and wireless networking adapter are not even remotely required for the full 360 experience. This post is kinda low quality.

Guys, leave him alone.
Its an estimate.
And a BLOG, not a news site.

Besides, I think he did a pretty good job with this. But I'm still happy with the 360 bundle, considering the HDDVD drive could be lower priced, and that there's no chance that the PS3 accessories will be the same as the 360's, since Sony will have to charge more to recoup their losses.

An important point missed is that Xbox Live is $49.99 for one person. If you have a spouse or kids then tack on another $49.99 for every person that wants to access Live. This is a scam that I have contacted MS about asking them to release a "Family Live" package. They refuse to respond.

If companies like Sony and Nintendo offer good online services for free then that's where I'll be. My 360 doesn't get used much anyway.

yes... because you couldn't have stretched gta over two or three cd's.....

blu ray is not ready for prime time. sony is still STILL having problems making the drives... and as I've stated, the read speed for a blu ray disc is much slower than that of a dvd, resulting in slow and abundant load times most likely. Disc size alone is not enough to merit the format. There's other ways to get a lot of data in a game.... maybe we'll see multi dvd games, maybe we'll see better compression techniques..... I think it's a little too soon to call blu ray a gaming inovation of any sort.

Interesting comparison. But don't you mean put it through the
wringer (as in wring the water out of wet clothes) rather than the
ringer (as in the ringing part of a phone)?

You only need one play and charge kit really. Then, a single battery for each additional controller. With that said you end up with the same equipment on both sides of the fence. But...I don't know if the PS3 wireless controller will have the battery built in or if it can be replaced like the 360 pad. I would theorize that it will be removable because rechargable batteries loose their longevity over time.

Anyway, I agree that you can't forget the HDMI cable for the PS3....if you want a "fully loaded" system. Additionally, it has been reported that most PS3 games are only going to support 720p initially so HDMI would only be useful for BR playback.

Aight friends. I'll retract my comment on the HDMI cable.

Dragonspear, tagging this post as "idiotic" isn't the best choice of vocabulary. It's speculation and should be welcomed that way.

The fact is that DVD is not dead, and for that reason alone, I prefer to stick with 360 over PS3. I'm not forced to purchase a more expensive system that utilizes extra built-in accessories. I can choose to purchase or not purchase those with my Xbox. That cuts down the price respectively.

Second to that, I really enjoy the LIVE community experience and the overall interface. I'm not impressed with PS3's online plans until I see them in motion.

Well, if the thrust of the argument was: "Hey hardware manufacturers - stop throwing every gee-whiz gizmo and 'innovation' into the box 'just because you can'. Blu-Ray? Wireless? DVD? Unnecessary frills." - I would have to second it.

All of this helps contribute to the price - and the way it's going, I'll stick with a home-built PC and wait till the next-gen console is on sale at the local pawn shop, thanks.

How about, instead, getting a better deal with a different chip maker to reduce the cost of core components while increasing speed? Implement a private network torrent style system to deliver content updates? There are endless opportunites to innovate that do not involve the 'throw everything in AND the kitchen sink' approach.

Hezz is right. These discs are obviously going to be filled near the end of the PS3s lifespan. What Sony is doing is making an expensive, but future proof system. We'll see whose being flamed when Halo 5 comes out on eighteen discs.

I just don't see that Blue-Ray will fail. Sony is aiming for 3 target markets:

1) Videogamers
2) Movie junkies
3) PC users

Let's say if BR fails in movie market segment (people not impressed with quality, too expensive etc.), at least Sony has 2 other "backup" markets to keep BR survived. The fact that every PS3 game uses BR means that BR production will increase as long as the games are selling well. And what happens when manufacturing increases? Economy of scale.

When that happens, BR price will decrease quicker and on faster rate than anything you can imagine. Unlike HDTV or LCD that take 5-6 years to slowly drop their prices, BR price can drop within a year, a two or even less if Sony produces more PS3 games.

Plus, the history shows that games progressively gets bigger overtime. When SNES was around, 16 or 32MB was considered huge for a game. When PS2 came out, most of the launch games were still in CDs. But guess what? Now games can barely fit into 8.9GB DVD even in PS2 platform. BR might seems unnecessary for now, but it will be useful in the future when games becomes 10GBs or more. Who knows what use it might be, but I bet developers appreciate the extra space to put more content in. This part is what I think might be the major weakness of 360. Even if a game is released dual-platform, PS3 will have the advantage of extra contents, extra levels, more behind-the-scene footages etc.

And about the PC market. Wow, imagine if you're an avid bittorent user. The fact that you only need to burn ONE 50GB BR disc instead of 12 DVDs to backup your goodies is a pretty good enticement for a consumer. Sure it costs 20 bucks a disc right now, but so was DVD when it first came out. I can see BR being used as backup media to subtitute DVD in the future. Sure, harddrive is cheaper right now, but it's not as versatile as BR or DVDs and it has a high failure rates. I've had a number of recent experience when my harddrives just died for no reason and lost all the data in it (a number of times). I'm honestly more scared putting my data on a harddrive compared to putting it into BR or DVD.

People might hate beign suffed with BR on their mouth, but strategically-wise, Sony is playing smart. What it's doing is accelerating the saturation of the market. Instead of waiting 6-10 years before BR becomes noticably cheap, it can do it within 1-2 years down the road.

The only possible scenario of BR failing is IF PS3 doesn't have any good games to sell. Sony should learn from its experience with PSP that UMD would have survived if the system has more good games, because every PSP games uses UMD format and the more they sell, the more UMD will be produced.

Let me fix the comparison for you:

Xbox 360 Standard: $399.99
Gold Xbox Live Subscription: $49.99
Wireless Networking Adapter: $99.99 (Don't really need this as a full experience feature, but I'll leave it in to entertain you, Crecente!)
Second Wireless Controller: $49.99
Play and Charge Kit: $19.99 (Unless you are CONSTANTLY playing with 2 people, you don't need two. Even then, you can just play with one person plugged in, and when the other is about to fail, switch it to the other controller! LOGIC, sir!)
Battery Pack: $11.99 (For that second controller)
HD-DVD: $0 (There is absolutely NO NEED for this, whatsoever! HD-DVD has NOTHING to do with the ultimate gaming experience, and guess what, consoles are about GAMING, sir. You shouldn't factor this in.)
Total: $631.94

Playstation 3 standard: $599
PS3 Network Platform: $49.99 (Honestly, you think online multiplay will be completely free? Dream on! SOMEONE, be it Sony or a publisher, will start charging, and it will become standard to charge for PS3 multiplayer.)
Wireless Networking Adapter: Built-in
Second Wireless Controller: $49.99*
Charge Kit: $19.99* (Same thing with the recharging I stated in the 360 comparison.)
Battery Pack: $11.99*
Total: $730.96

Factor in the likely higher cost for PS3 games, not to mention the lack of PS3 games, not knowing what will come in the Sony package (headset, remote, etc), and the fact Sony's online is going to fail, the Xbox 360 is not only $99.02 cheaper, but a much better experience!

I'm very curious to see how Sony's pricing on games will turn out. blank blu-Ray media will be hideously expensive (figures of $60-$80 per-disc have been mentioned) and while Sony won't be paying anywhere near that the blanks won't be a negligible cost as they were last gen.

there have been rumors of hiked up game prices for the ps3.... granted, they're just rumors right now, but I wouldn't be suprised to see a six hundred dollar console that had eighty dollar games either.

do you have the book 'Annoying fanboys' by J. R. Crecente?

I would like to add one thing to what Brian has said. Xbox Live is $49.99 per person.
So if you have a wife and two kids that all want to play and keep their own save games you're looking at $50x4=$200 for Xbox Live.

In my house there are 4 gamers. We can't afford $200 for Live so instead we go with Silver which sucks. No online play and even some downloads are restricted. I have emailed MS a few times about creating a "Family Live" package, but they refuse to respond.

If Sony and Nintendo offer a great online services for free then that's where my money will be. The MS service is like a bastardized MMO sceme where not only do you pay the monthly fee, but you pay for the new content as well.

Ok, I see what you mean. Your going by what Microsoft believes what the gaming experience should be, and what Sony believes. MS is saying the Wireless Networking Adapter, and HD-DVD are optional and isn't necessary for the best gaming experience. While Sony is saying you "need" those for the best experience. I personally don't need the adapter, but I kind of want the HD DVD add on when I get a HD TV. Xbox live Gold you can get for $35 "right now", and no one knows what Sony is offering in there "free" online service. Doing these comparisons is so difficult becuase it is about "us" the consumer and what we need in are gaming console. Microsft made the right move and made the stuff optional. I can't wait untill you compare the Wii with the 360 and the PS3. The Wii is going to look sooo weak and it shows in the price. Remember, once you play a game on the ps3 and the 360 its going to be hard to play a game of lesser quality on the Wii!

Where's the games breakdown? Isn't that what matters?

Crecente did forget a few things.

You do not need charge kits for the PS3, you just use a USB to mini-USB cable to connect the controller to the console and change the built in batter. The USB to mini-USB cable must be included with controller, or you would not be able to charge the controller at all :). That removes an additional $40 from the cost of the PS3 as shown here.

Also, I really think you should be comparing the 20GB version of the PS3 to the X-Box 360 standard since they have more comparable features. They both lack WiFi, HDMI ports and come with 20GB hard drives. Of course, you still get the Blu-Ray drive and movie playback on the 20GB PS3 while you do not on the X-Box 360 Standard. Plus, you get a motion sensing controller on the PS3 but of course you lose the rumble…

So, to due a more apple to apples comparison would be as follows:

Xbox 360 Standard (20GB): $399.99
Gold Xbox Live Subscription: At least $49.99 (Likely more.)
Second Wireless Controller: $49.99
Two Play and Charge Kits: $19.99 times two.
HD-DVD: $199*
Total: $739.95
Playstation 3 20GB: $499
PS3 Network Platform: Free
Blu-ray player: Built-in
Second Wireless Controller: $49.99*
Two charge Kits: Built-in
Total: $548.99

Even if you remove the HD-DVD drive from the X-Box 360 (which cannot be used for games, only movies) the X-Box 360 Standard (20GB) would be $540.95 compared to $548.99 for the 20GB PS3. So really, you are only paying $8 more for the PS3 20GB and you get a Blu-Ray drive, Blu-Ray movie playback and a motion sensing controller.

However, at the end of the day to me the value of the console is the games that can be played on it. So really, the true value of each console is unknown for now.

What makes you guys think they wont have a proprietary HDMI output on the ps3? force you to but one specifically made for it, that fits only the ps3 made by sony. then maybe later on, pelican or whatever will make cheaper ones.

Historically, thats how its done. i can think of only 2 consoles that let you plug in an old cables....the 3DO and the Neo Geo CD.

@ What The Geek.

Alright, GTA3 would have been possible on multiple discs. It would have been quite easy probably, given that it's devided in 3 parts anyway. But what about GTA's best iteration without any major gameplay loadtimes, GTA: San Andreas?

The whole streaming trend in general is something against disturbing the game-flow, which disc-swapping does considerably. Except for Parallel Lines, which just seems to like locking-up.